hello
lots of different questions. i’ll try to touch on all of them.
if you don’t hear back from employers you were not a fit. it’s second guessing but you have to try to find out what the issue was and approach it with an open mind.
connections are not as paramount as you might think. at least not on an entry level with big firms. in fact a lot have prohibited referrals of friends and family.
to stand out as a candidate, practice is the key. get as many interviews as possible and do a post mortem after each ideally with someone experienced who questions your thinking. it’s a number game. the more interviews and internships you have the higher the chances of scoring a good spot. if you do get an internship seek mentoring during the internship in order to make sure it transforms into a grad place.
Is trading worth it anymore sell-side or is it all about the platforms (mlp, citadel, p72, etc.) and the prop shops (Jane street, optiver, cit sec, etc.)?
It feels like sell-side is not where a promising trader should be anymore, what do you think?
Thank you, good strategy.
Hi Mathias,
I am currently working as a market risk manager for Credit trading desk. What should be my strategy to move to trading desk?
Hello Mathias,
It’s great to have someone like you in this forum!
I’ve always been keen on moving into a risk-taking role (sell-side trading in FI/derivatives, market making, hedge fund, etc.), but I’ve found it challenging to get my CV to make the cut. I’m currently working on the buy side in trading, and I’m a bit concerned about getting “boxed in” by that profile.
Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to attend a prestigious university due to financial constraints and lack of support tied to my nationality, so the traditional internship route was never really an option for me. I studied quant finance with a bachelor’s in pure finance.
If you were in a hiring position, what would you look for as a differentiator in someone with my background to make them stand out for a trading role?
hello.
devil is in the detail. yes. it feels like that. and there are a lot of advantages being a trader at the shops you’ve mentioned: better pay outs, more risk appetite, much less regulation, fewer corporate traps etc.
the big question is how to get a such a job at those places. and this is where it becomes difficult. the top 10 investment banks will have a combined 10k internships and 2k grad programs globally. the application processes (even tho difficult) are transparent, fair and well established.
Hedge funds often recruit rising star VP’s from investment banks who have had a stellar training on one of their trading floors. it’s cheaper, it has a higher success rate and it comes with much less HR overhead.
there are of course intern and grad jobs at the places you’ve mentioned. they however are harder to come by, are more dependent on friends and relationships and once you’re in, you have much less protection to the downside.
trading in particular is learned by losing money. the best lessons in trading are taught by losing trades. the acceptance of that (even tho diminishing) is still greater at traditional banks
hello
good question. difficult to answer without knowing more about your exact profile.
to generalise a bit: there rarely is the big move to the dream job. the dream job comes in stages and over years. I’d say try to progress in your area with one eye on attributes that bring you closer to that dream job. take incremental career steps. if the stars were not aligned for you early in your career the way to progress is perseverance, hard work and taking risk in changing jobs in incremental steps (it’s not without risk to change jobs in order to progress. but if that’s what you really want the risks can be measured and taken with the bigger goal in mind)
hello
few things you can do. (it’s not easy given the intended segregation between the two functions) Network with the traders and the trading managers. offer help where you can. for example sharing models (if permitted. make always sure you don’t breach your rules) offering to work on project (this might be things like integrating risk parameters in algos alongside tech etc.)
it is very difficult to make the jump from risk into trading in one go. you probably have to take incremental steps. this could be to move to a function on the trading floor that isn’t a trading role to begin with. the good thing is you are within the institution. the key starting point is to network outside the box.
Hello Matthias, thanks for doing this AMA.
I’m currently a junior market maker in cash credit at a non BB bank in Europe, 2.5 years on the job. I was hired at the end of college after an internship and stayed in the same shop ever since.
I was an assistant during the first year, mostly on Corp seniors, and then I was given the opportunity to start and develop a new book from scratch in the sub fins space. The learning curve was steep while developing the franchise but I should end up at or slightly above the objectives given at the start of the year. Besides my main book, I am also trading Corp hybrids & seniors, and I spent some time handling some algo trading in govies.
I enjoy my current workplace for the mentorship and trust I was given, the flexibility to explore other areas of cash credit without much constraints (as long as there is some intersection with client flow), the culture, and the work-life balance.
At some point I would like to trade other products in the fixed income space, but this won’t be possible at my current place. Do you think it’s worth a shot applying directly to other fixed income market making jobs (derivatives, loans, ABS, etc.) or should I apply to a cash credit market making position and then try to make a move internally ?
Also, being at a smaller place, I fear that compensation will soon lag what other banks are paying (if not already). I should receive approx. €120k-140k total (€80k base) for this year, and it seems to me that my base is quite low compared to other banks. How would you approach a move from a smaller bank to a BB considering that the P&L scale will be quite different (due to balance sheet/book size) ?
Thank you for your time !
hello
i’ve started myself at a 3rd tier bank in europe with exactly the same constraints.
a lot depends on your boss and your networking within that bank.
in my experience internal moves can be very difficult because often jobs don’t become vacant for decades. jobs there are for life and because they pay relatively well for the city they are in, no one ever leaves.
We would have to look at your exact circumstances and your management in order to make a better assessment of the situation. the same is true for compensation. because mobility is constraint there typically is little leverage to force an increase in pay. again I would have to look at the details in order to give a better opinion.
in the end you will probably have to assess whether you are willing to change jobs and make the step to london or paris where the situation is very different. chances of a successful move are quite high and I have advised several people on this process and every case worked out well. in the end it’s about your priorities and what you want.
please reach out to me on linkedin if you would like to explore this further.
best
matthias
This AMA is now closed!